Posted by crumbsroom  12/18/2022 7:32 pm | #61 |
Jinnistan wrote:
I was no great fan of the book though.
I don't think I've read a Tom Robbins I didn't like.
Um...I'm sure there is something else but nothing is coming to mind
Drugstore Cowboy, dude.
I know Gallo is a real piece of shit, but I know nothing about his dynamics with Sevigny. Being ignorant towards whatever creepy or coersive things he did though,the famous scene gets a lot of flack for being exploitative, and I don't see it that way. At least not if I look at exclusively what is in film and nothing else. It's the only tender and loving moment in a movie composed of almost complete emotional dead air. It's a fantastic scene, removed from whatever BJ trickery he may have been up to behind the scenes
I admit that I'm not entirely sure what's rumor and what's fact, but there were a lot of rumors around this at the time. One rumor has been pretty thoroughly debunked, which is that she wasn't aware they were rolling, which may have been based on the fact that he used remote cameras in the scene, but she's strongly denied this. There's also a rumor that Gallo got her really fucked up beforehand to get her to agree to do the scene. She hasn't denied this exactly. Another rumor is that he gave her herpes, which, as far as I know, she's never even addressed, but there's several other stories from other women that he gave them herpes, so it's not out of the question.
Sevigny has praised the film however, because she's an angel, and summed up the experience with a mildly revealing "I try to forgive and forget, otherwise I'd just become a bitter old lady." So something happened that required forgiving and forgetting.
Yes. I like Drugstore Cowboy. I'm always disappointed when I rewatch and remember how little William Burroughs is in it.
I think Cowboy is the only Robbins I read. And the only reason that happened is I found a copy in a puddle on the street.
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Posted by Rampop II 12/18/2022 7:46 pm | #62 |
Not saying that it's proof of endemic corruption by Sight & Sound, but it rubs it in a bit to learn that the periodical hired as one of their poll consultants someone named Girish Shambu who had publicly vowed to "set on fire" what he called the "straight white male canon". I'm not saying that I'm offended by this as a straight white male. I'm offended as an artist that this type of demographic criteria is being confused as a form of aesthetic appreciation. Worse, it isn't going to help in the long run.
...Since S&S asked its participants to try and include at least one film from a female director, Jeanne Dielman became the most commonly cited female-directed film, and thus ended up on more lists, technically, than several other otherwise higher ranked films.
Is it not being generally acknowledged that, regardless of how unfair or inequitable the situation may be, underrepresentation in the film industry is going to result in underrepresentation at the awards ceremonies as well?
And is nobody pointing out the inherent insult in letting the proposed remedy become the dreaded "lowering of the bar?" How can a winner expect to feel satisfied, or confident in their own abilities, with the unanswered question, "Did I really earn this? Or is this just a pity prize, so that 'everybody gets a trophy?' Am I an impostor?"
I want more representation. I'm sick of the status quo. I abhor the Hollywood calculation that white audiences will only watch films with white lead characters. I have never researched how they come to this conclusion, or how true the assumption is, and in some ways I'd rather not know because if the percentage of white filmgoers unable to tolerate non–white characters is so high that Hollywood buttheads accurately assess 47 Ronin as needing more Keanu, well, that's just a fucking bummer I might prefer to live without.
Last edited by Rampop II (12/18/2022 7:47 pm)
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/18/2022 8:44 pm | #63 |
When demanding inclusiveness on the lists of others, I honestly want to know how these people think this should work. To use the case of Hertzfeld vs Vinnie, does she believe the animator has some female directed films just outside of his top ten that maybe he should have considered instead. At least I kind of get that. It's still none of her fucking business, but if Hertzfeld had Wanda as his number 15, maybr there isn't much or a foul if he put that in there instead. Won't compromise this being a metric of his personal taste, and he gets the nice afterglow of 'doing the right thing'. But what if Wanda was at twenty. Or thirty. Or fifty. Is he still expected to shoehorn that into his top ten. Exactly what then would that be saying about the quality of his lost. Would it even be representative of him anymore
Of course I know what the response would likely be. Complaints thst he hates women filmmaking if he cant include even one in his top 50. But isn't just maybe possible because of that simple over abundance of male centric films, that some people simply won't find a space even in their top 100? Of course it is. If you watch loads of movies, you are basically just watching that many more made by men.
And this isn't even factoring in that there are dozens of other groups who need representation. Who should he choose. Who gets that spot. Or should all of the spots go to these othered movies?
It's just all so fucking stupid and obnoxious and contrary to everything art is about. Much like Rampop I would love less of a sausage fest out there. Give me all sorts of different things. But just because (in my case) I don't have any Japanese films in my top 10 (or maybe not even in my top 30) doesnt mean I dont appreciate them. Or am excluding them. Or dont want to see more of them
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/22/2022 5:48 pm | #64 |
Variety has just released their own Top 100 list, and there are a couple of obvious observations - the list is a lot more conventional and American. But it's hard to hate when it puts my favorite Hitchcock in its rightful place. There's also plenty to quibble. Not one single Taxi Driver in sight 
1. Psycho
2. Wizard of Oz
3. The Godfather
4. Citizen Kane
5. Pulp Fiction
6. Seven Samurai
7. 2001: A Space Odyssey
8. It's a Wonderful Life
9. All About Eve
10. Saving Private Ryan
11. Singing in the Rain
12. Goodfellas
13. The Rules of the Game
14. Do The Right Thing
15. Sunrise
16. Casablanca
17. Nashville
18. Persona
19. Godfather II
20. Blue Velvet
21. Gone With The Wind
22. Chinatown
23. The Apartment
24. Tokyo Story
25. Bringing Up Baby
26. The 400 Blows
27. Bonnie and Clyde
28. City Lights
29. Double Indemnity
30. Empire Strikes Back
31. Network
32. Vertigo
33. 8 1/2
34. Stagecoach
35. Silence of the Lambs
36. On The Waterfront
37. Annie Hall
38. Lawrence of Arabia
39. Some Like It Hot
40. Fargo
41. The Wild Bunch
42. Moonlight
43. Shoah
44. L'Avventura
45. Titanic
46. Notorious
47. Mean Streets
48. The Piano
49. Texas Chainsaw Massacre
50. Breathless
51. Apocalypse Now
52. The General
53. In The Mood For Love
54. The Road Warrior
55. Pather Panchali
56. Rosemary's Baby
57. Brokeback Mountain
58. E.T.
59. Vagabond
60. Moulin Rouge
61. Passion of Joan of Arc
62. Dazed and Confused
63. Bambi
64. Carrie
65. A Man Escaped
66. Paris Is Burning
67. Bicycle Thieves
68. King Kong
69. Beau Travail
70. 12 Years a Slave
71. My Best Friend's Wedding
72. Breaking The Waves
73. Intolerance
74. My Neighbor Totoro
75. Boogie Nights
76. The Tree of Life
77. Goldfinger
78. Jeanne Dielman
79. Waiting For Guffman
80. Pixote
81. The Dark Knight
82. Parasite
83. Kramer Vs Kramer
84. Pan's Labyrinth
85. Natural Born Killers
86. Close Up
87. The Sound of Music
88. Malcolm X
89. Belle de Jour
90. The Shining
91. Scenes From a Marriage
92. Pink Flamingos
93. Le Samourai
94. Bridesmaids
95. Toy Story
96. A Hard Day's Night
97. Alien
98. Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown
99. 12 Angry Men
100. The Graduate
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/22/2022 5:57 pm | #65 |
The one that's gnawing on me the most. Yeah, Saving Private Ryan, sure (where the fuck is Jaws, people?), but actually it's My Best Friend's Wedding. And I don't even hate that movie. It's one of those 90s rom-coms where my sister wants to see it and I'm just grateful that it's not too bad (see also: Clueless and Wedding Singer). It doesn't need to be within a whiff of the trash can with all of the crumpled drafts of lists outside of the building where the list was finally chosen. There's a handful of others that I would eliminate with prejudice, but that one, I might have to think about firing the lonely bitch who looked around her old VHS' tapes and thought, what the hell, this is as good as anything.
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/22/2022 7:40 pm | #66 |
Yes, but it has Pixote and Pink Flamingos, so it gets back some respect
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/22/2022 7:46 pm | #67 |
And as much as I love Boogie Nights it absolutely does not deserve to be the PT Anderson representation.
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/22/2022 8:06 pm | #68 |
And as much as I love Boogie Nights it absolutely does not deserve to be the PT Anderson representation.
I'd like to see a couple extra PTAs, but I definitely like Boogie Nights more than Dazed and Confused.
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/22/2022 8:39 pm | #69 |
And as much as I love Boogie Nights it absolutely does not deserve to be the PT Anderson representation.
I'd like to see a couple extra PTAs, but I definitely like Boogie Nights more than Dazed and Confused.
I just find its narrative arc to neat. Rise and fall. Things are good, now they're not. Of course it is riveting, but after awhile I'm just, yes, I get it, now it's your turn to hit the hard times. One character after the next. Just ticking the boxes.
I'm almost always going to prefer a movie like Dazed and Confused that just floats along. Things happen. Then it ends. And every moment of it speaking to me.
Last edited by crumbsroom (12/22/2022 8:40 pm)
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/22/2022 8:43 pm | #70 |
I didn't re realize that Saving Private Ryan was top 10. Give this the stupid award over Get Out. At least Get Out is mostly good.
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/23/2022 5:52 pm | #71 |
And as much as I love Boogie Nights it absolutely does not deserve to be the PT Anderson representation.
I'd like to see a couple extra PTAs, but I definitely like Boogie Nights more than Dazed and Confused.
I just find its narrative arc to neat. Rise and fall. Things are good, now they're not. Of course it is riveting, but after awhile I'm just, yes, I get it, now it's your turn to hit the hard times. One character after the next. Just ticking the boxes.
Hard disagree. I don't find anything "too neat" about it. A lot of people complain about PTA's messy third acts, but I love them, and I would put the messiness of Boogie Nights' last half hour right up there with them. I mean, ok, the general picture of the rise/fall arc is there, but it's all in how it gets there, and I think it goes to some pretty weird and wonderful places.
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/23/2022 6:44 pm | #72 |
I'd like to see a couple extra PTAs, but I definitely like Boogie Nights more than Dazed and Confused.I just find its narrative arc to neat. Rise and fall. Things are good, now they're not. Of course it is riveting, but after awhile I'm just, yes, I get it, now it's your turn to hit the hard times. One character after the next. Just ticking the boxes.
Hard disagree. I don't find anything "too neat" about it. A lot of people complain about PTA's messy third acts, but I love them, and I would put the messiness of Boogie Nights' last half hour right up there with them. I mean, ok, the general picture of the rise/fall arc is there, but it's all in how it gets there, and I think it goes to some pretty weird and wonderful places.
The weird and wonderful places is what makes it compelling. But when the basic structure is just one emotional collapse after another, I felt like I was getting well ahead of the movie emotionally. Very much like Requiem for a Dream does, but in that case, when it is only four characters that we are getting one low down after another on, it does feel quite so repetitive and remains bludgeoning.
Now this isn't to say I don't enjoy and marvel at pretty much every minute of the movie. I love it, and in many ways it's my favorite of his because I have rewatched it a dozen times. But there is just something more mysterious and ephemerally interesting about how all of his other films reach their conclusion. Those are messy and I love them for it
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/23/2022 7:21 pm | #73 |
Boogie Nights isn't my favorite PTA film, but I do like it much more than Dazed and Confused (a film I happen to like a lot).
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Posted by Jinnistan 12/23/2022 7:27 pm | #74 |
As long as we can agree that Boogie Nights and Dazed and Confused are both better than Saving Private Ryan and at least a half dozen films placed higher than them.
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Posted by crumbsroom 12/23/2022 7:45 pm | #75 |
As long as we can agree that Boogie Nights and Dazed and Confused are both better than Saving Private Ryan and at least a half dozen films placed higher than them.
Good Lord, and definitely
And I wouldn't consider Dazed as even being that much better. Only that I don't want Boogie Nights being the PTA rep
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Posted by Rock 1/31/2023 12:16 pm | #76 |
They’ve now posted the 250 to 101 rankings. Lots of great films here. Yet none of which are as good as Get Out. The numbers don’t lie.
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time
(TBH this looks better than the top 100.)
I am not above abusing mod powers for my own amusement.
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Posted by crumbsroom 1/31/2023 12:41 pm | #77 |
They’ve now posted the 250 to 101 rankings. Lots of great films here. Yet none of which are as good as Get Out. The numbers don’t lie.
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time
(TBH this looks better than the top 100.)
Ooh, lots of things there I've either overlooked, maybe under estimated or never heard of. Exactly what I hope for in a list.
Or, in the words of movieforums, never heard of them, gonna keep it that way, ain't interested, no one can possibly like those, moving along
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Posted by Jinnistan 1/31/2023 12:46 pm | #78 |
Maybe someone will nominate one of them in a HoF. 
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Posted by Jinnistan 2/01/2023 2:31 pm | #79 |
They’ve now posted the 250 to 101 rankings. Lots of great films here. Yet none of which are as good as Get Out. The numbers don’t lie.
https://www.bfi.org.uk/sight-and-sound/greatest-films-all-time
(TBH this looks better than the top 100.)
Among the ones I haven't seen:
Goodbye Dragon Inn
La Cienaga
Sambizanga
Partie de Campagne
All That Heaven Allows
Watermelon Woman
India Song
West Indies: Fugitive Slaves of Liberty
Meghe Dhaka Tara
West of the Tracks
A City of Sadness
Where is the Friend's House
Out 1
Memories of Underdevelopment
Charulata
Letter from an Unknown Woman
Pyaasa
An Autumn Afternoon
Paris Is Burning
The Headless Woman
De Cierta Manera
I Know Where I'm Going
Wavelength
Limite
Twenty Years Later
By The Bluest of Seas
The Green Ray
Blue (Derek Jarman)
Flowers of Shanghai
As I Was Moving Ahead Occasionally I Saw Brief Glimpses of Beauty
Petite Maman (didn't this just come out?)
Je, Tu, Il, Elle
The Crowd
The Hour of Furnaces
The Quince Tree Sun
Werkmeister Harmonies
In Vanda's Room
The Intruder
Syndromes and a Century
Nostalgia for the Light
Distant Voices Still Lives
Soleil O
Born in Flames
So my math puts me as having seen 107 of them.
Some interesting ties. #211 - Raiders of the Lost Ark, Pink Flamingos, Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me, Deer Hunter, Suspiria, Duck Soup
And speaking of Twin Peaks, I know that David Lynch has said that he considers The Return as being an 18-hour film rather than a TV show, but I still think it's a bit of a cheat.
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Posted by Jinnistan 2/01/2023 2:38 pm | #80 |
The Matrix ranking higher than Pulp Fiction, Raging Bull, Lawerance of Arabia, Raiders of the Lost Ark and Star Wars is so fucking irritating, I can't even properly register my emotional offence.
