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I’ve seen these:
Nausicäa of the Valley of the Wind
My Neighbor Totoro
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Castle in the Sky
Porco Rosso
Castle of Cagliostro
Howl’s Moving Castle
Only Yesterday
Tales of Earthsea
Netflix had a bunch of these so I spent summer 2020 going through a bunch of them. I’d say all were very good to great except for Howl’s and Earthsea.
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Jinnistan wrote:
As poor little Porco Rosso sits weeping, I softly pat him on his fat head and say, "There, there, buddy. Some people simply forget sometimes."
I don’t eat swine but still made time for this.
🐷✈️
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If we're talking non-Miyazaki Ghibli films, then Grave of the Fireflies deserves a nod.
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That one’s definitely on my radar, but for some reason Netflix didn’t have it (despite having I think pretty much all the others). Wonder if it’s a rights issue.
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I didn't forget Porco Rosso. I liked Porco Rosso, but it doesn't hold a candle to the ones on that list for me, personally. As you can imagine, I felt like it showed more promise than it delivered, but that may have been partially due to my own high expectations after having seen some of Miyazaki's more epic stuff. Still, Porco does help to represent part of what is so cool about a lot of Miyazaki movies, in that they don't necessarily tell a story with a definite beginning and ending the way we've been conditioned to expect. You don't always get total closure with a Miyazaki story; sometimes it seems intended to leave you with the feeling of having experienced only part of a much bigger picture, one story within a greater untold story, a mere cluster of blossoms on the limb of an infinite tree. Spirited Away might be the exception to that principle, with its very definite conflict/resolution arc, and maybe that's part of why it's the most well–received of his films on our side of the pond. But I do credit the open–ended nature of Miyazaki films with changing how I thought about story structure.
Yes to Grave of the Fireflies. That's a big one in Japan; consistently evoking memories of entire cinemas weeping in unison. It's no Miyazaki film, but as JJ says it's definitely worth a look. It was extremely meaningful to Japanese audiences as a kind of collective catharsis in facing their tragic past; what we see on the screen would have evoked firsthand memories for anybody over the age of 45 or so. That's Isao Takahata, another Ghibli co–founder and respected writer/director/producer in his own right. His film Kaguyahime waits patiently on my watchlist. I hadn't given it scorching priority, but it's on my list. The folk tale itself, at least as I understand it, is far from feature–length material, but it's been getting heaps of praise.
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Oh wait, I've seen Kaguya as well. I remember being kind of underwhelmed, but I'm drawing a blank as to why. Likely the animation style caught me off guard.
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Rampop II wrote:
I didn't forget Porco Rosso. I liked Porco Rosso, but it doesn't hold a candle to the ones on that list for me, personally.
It was a little funny since it also happened to almost literally be the only Miyazaki film which didn't make your list. So by default, pretty much puts it at the bottom of said list.
I like the film a lot, even the dub (with Michael Keaton), and while it may not have the fantastical scale of the others, it still has lots of charm. I prefer it to Cagliostro.
What if we go pre-Ghibli? I like Horus, Prince of the Sun, a Hokkaido tale transposed in the West to Nordic myth under an Egyptian name. Directed by Takahata, with Miyazaki as a key animator. The animation is notably cheaper, but it still has tons of imagination and a number of magical moments.
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Porco Rossi is one of the only ones I haven't seen.
And Nausicaa
Mononoke is easily my least favorite.
Totoro easily the greatest of the bunch.
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crumbsroom wrote:
Porco Rossi is one of the only ones I haven't seen.
And Nausicaa
Mononoke is easily my least favorite.
Totoro easily the greatest of the bunch.
This warms my heart. I love Totoro so much I can watch it endlessly. That scene of the "time lapse" growing tree brings me to tears every time. I've often fantasized of doing a real time–lapse project of a growing tree. To my knowledge no such project has been undertaken on a "broadcast quality" scale. It would take decades and would require adjustments for light levels, changing backgrounds, weather, and the natural movement of the earth. I have seen one amateur attempt on YouTube, shot in someone's front yard, where many of said problems are evident. Capturing the majesty and organic nature of the natural process in the way we see it in Totoro would require multiple cameras in a controlled environment. The idea was originally inspired by the roots of a tree by a street in Midtown Memphis, TN. Left unchecked by the city, the roots had ruptured the sidewalk and part of the right lane of the street itself, a massive root adorned in rubble. It was such a beautiful representation of Nature's slow triumph over Man's attempts to subdue her. I think about it whenever I see a weed or blade of grass breaking through pavement. This tiny, seemingly fragile blade of grass, pulverizing something so seemingly superior in its rigid strength. Illusion. Nature in her own tempo, her poetry in motion, steadily crushing our efforts revealed so feeble, vain and futile in her grip. A good filmmaker friend responded with enthusiasm about the idea and remarked that the outcome might be an unexpected one, looking more alien and, even "kind of gross" in its natural process. He also praised Totoro, emphasizing the fact that, as he put it, "If you think about it, nothing happens in that movie!" I wouldn't have phrased it exactly like that, since plenty happens, but I think he was referring to that same concept of how Miyazaki's films often defy our traditional sense of narrative storytelling with its arc of conflict and resolution.
Speaking of film techniques represented in Miyazaki flicks that aren't true instances of said techniques, I did notice with amusement a scene in The Wind Rises featuring a shot of the sun, with lens flare. There's no reason whatsoever for lens flare to occur in an animated production so it was an interesting artistic choice.
As you might expect me to say, definitely see Nausicaa. You might call it an iteration of many of the same themes as Totoro, but in a more mature form (meaning darker, and with casualties). Another one that makes me all weepy in certain parts, I'm not ashamed to admit. "Strong men also cry!"
I'm curious about your dislike for Mononoke. Not for debate's sake, but I'd be interested in your take on what was so off–putting about that one for you.
Jinnistan wrote:
It was a little funny since it also happened to almost literally be the only Miyazaki film which didn't make your list.
Yeah I guess you're right. Didn't intend it that way. I originally would have left Cagliostro in that lower half as well, though like I said it's plenty entertaining. Even funnier is how we all seem to collectively agree to dismiss Howl's Moving Castle, and I think we share that sentiment with most Miyazaki fans. Again, it's not a particularly bad film, and there are lots of cool things about it. It just doesn't seem to ever follow through, either on what it seems to be setting up, or on what we've come to expect from Miyazaki.
I've also been under the false impression that a number of other Ghibli films I've seen were Miyazaki creations, includingWhisper of the Heart[/url] and [url= ]Arriety[/url]. [url= ]Pom Poko[/url] and [url= ]The Cat Returns are a couple of other non–Miyazaki productions from Ghibli I never got around to seeing, but they're also well–loved in Japan.
Am I to assume those GIFs are from Horus, Prince of the Sun? That does look badass; I'll have to check that out.
I do still love throwing that spotlight on the Weinstein incident. Knowing what we now know about that filthy little slimeball, it's supremely satisfying to imagine a top–ranking Ghibli executive taking him down a peg with a politely–veiled, mobster–style threat.
"Don't let the cute and fuzzy fool you. You know people. So do we."
And ours go wayyy back. Don't make us get mid–Edo on your ass.
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Rampop II wrote:
Am I to assume those GIFs are from Horus, Prince of the Sun? That does look badass; I'll have to check that out.
Yes, the gifs and stills are all from the film. It was broadcast on American TV as The Little Norse Prince but it has been restored on bluray. Not sure if it's still in print.
Rampop II wrote:
And ours go wayyy back. Don't make us get mid–Edo on your ass.
*Seinfeld joke
Oh damn. Looks like there's an attractive Takahata bluray boxset from 2015. I think it's only in Japan.
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crumbsroom wrote:
Mononoke is easily my least favorite.
Waaaaaaaat
The people I've talked to in real life about Miyazaki/Ghibli/anime generally cite that as one of their favourites. I do wonder if it's a common entrypoint because of the heavier action element.
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It's been awhile since I've seen Mononoke, but it was just too plot heavy for me. I prefer those 'nothing happens' kind of movies, particularly in animation. A basic premise filled in with beautiful details. I don't need anything more. More just distracts from what I like.
And I like Howl's Moving Castle. It wouldn't be anywhere near my top, and might be very close to the bottom, but I still prefer it to Mononoke.
Last edited by crumbsroom (5/08/2023 7:25 am)
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Yeah, that’s fair. I think Mononoke is able to tie Miyazaki’s sense of genuine beauty and respect for nature into the frame of an action anime, which is why I suspect a lot of people start with that one. As someone who’s had trouble getting into a lot of popular anime, it was refreshingly free of the elements I find annoying (needless hyperactivity, little girls yelling, etc).
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As for Howl, I know I wrote something about it somewhere, but would need to dig it up to remember what my issues were. Probably something about the dynamic between the protagonist and Howl.
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OMG I just watched Kaguyahime/The Tale of Princess Kaguya and I was floored. Got me all weepy. God I really want to talk about it but I have no time at the moment. For now I'm simply giving it my thumbs–up.
Crumbs I do hear what you're saying about Mononoke. It is kinda bogged–down in plot. I think Kaguyahime is closer to the preference you described: a basic premise filled in with beautiful details.
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Because The Tale of Princess Kaguya is based on a traditional Japanese fairy tale, the vast majority of Japanese audiences were already well–acquainted with the story, and you can see how the film sometimes plays to that foreknowledge (as films based on well–known stories often do). That doesn't mean knowing the story beforehand is prerequisite or anything, but there are a few things about the film that can be enjoyed from that perspective, in case anyone wants to exercise the option:
Taketori Monogatari (The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter)
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Under Siege 2: Dark Territory
Out for Justice
Fire Down Below
Sisu
London Has Fallen
Woods Are Wet
Law Abiding Citizen
Captured for Sex 2
Jackie and Bruce to the Rescue
The Freshman
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Rock wrote:
Oh wait, I've seen Kaguya as well. I remember being kind of underwhelmed, but I'm drawing a blank as to why. Likely the animation style caught me off guard.
It's different, no doubt, almost insistently different, as if to say, "I am not Hayao Miyazaki."
Seeing the trailer did prepare me for that, I think. And I had expectations that the style, something closer to impressionism than the more classic look of most Ghibli films, would be less engaging, less immersive, and something more emotionally distant, more to be seen and admired, like a painting on a wall than to be fully experienced.
Boy was I wrong. Where I expected limitations from that style, Isao exercised freedom. The film danced between a classic look and something approaching abstract impressionism, sweeping across varying degrees therein, playing those parameters for narrative device rather than just picking a setting and leaving it.
The use of frame rate also instantly sets Kaguya apart from most Ghibli films. It looks like they went for something closer to Bill Plympton’s “on the fours” approach, with each cel occupying four frames at 24 frames per second before switching to the next, or six drawings per second. Traditional cartoon animation such as Disney, Warner Bros etc involves a different cel for every frame at 24 fps, resulting in much smoother movements. I can’t find the straight stats on Kaguya. Lots of animation happens “on the threes,” resulting in eight images per second.
Even at those degrees of abstraction, I was blown away by how instantly relatable the emotion and humanity was in each drawing and movement. Every grimace, every laugh, every stumble and stomp, they just worked, I thought.
And I have to give special praise to Takeo Chii, who did the voice acting for the wood cutter. All the actors were good, but Chii’s performance really sold it for me.
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Rock wrote:
I didn't think that Jackie Chan was famous enough yet in '82 to get the Faux-sploitation treatment. I hope they included a end credits montage of Jackie Chang getting seriously injured.
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My understanding is that most of the Jackie Chan knockoffs were released in the wake of Snake in Eagle’s Shadow and Drunken Master, and only lasted for a few years after. It didn’t have the longevity of Bruceploitation, perhaps because the real thing was readily available.
Sadly there was no end credits montage. Jackie started doing those after appearing in The Cannonball Run, but I’m not sure the imitators would have tried to keep up.
Last edited by Rock (5/13/2023 7:35 pm)